First of all, the rampant disrespect shown by new members of the Sherdog forum to an absolute fighting legend like Wanderlei Silva is disgusting. Just 5 years ago, Wand was this forum's most beloved son - adored for his ALWAYS exciting bouts, his 5+ year reign of dominance in the most elite MMA organization on the planet at that time (PRIDE), and his psychotic fighting style where no matter what happened, you knew it'd be something crazy. Wand was never in a boring fight and provided fans with dozens of the most thrilled, devastating knockouts in history,
Secondly, and the reason I decided to make this post, is because ofthe blatant disrespect, trolling and disregard for a legend with a resume and style like Wanderlei Silva. Noticeably, albeit not surprisingly, almost all of these terrible posts come from the overwhelming number of new members. Yes, every group of n00bs is bad, but this is a different thing. Obviously, Chael has a schtick, much like a standup comedian.
Unfortunately, many new fans of the sport (usually low IQ, trashy, Johnny-come-lately types), take the guy's word as gospel. NONE of these people actually witnessed the history of this great sport, or saw either of these guys careers play out before their eyes. They didn't actually see how their wins and losses went down - they just hear Chael talk bad about someone, look at their fight finder or Wikipedia, and make an assumption. After making those assumptions, they go on their little forums and spout off nonsense that is essentially regurgitated garbage from a low end stand up comedy routine aimed pro wrestling fans.
So, on to the point. We can sit here and talk about the first 10 years of their careers all day - Everyone knows, and there is truly no argument, that Wanderlei has accomplished way more than Chael over the course of their careers.
Not only was Wand the 205 champ for 5+ years, he also won the prestigious fighting tournament ever at the time - the 2003 PRIDE MWGP. Featuring guys like Chuck Liddell, Rampage, Wand, Arona, Overeem, Nog, Saku, Yoshida, Busta.. etc, Wand winning this is one of the greatest accomplishments in MMA history. Think about this -guys like Chuck (the UFC's golden boy) even came to PRIDE at this time, hoping to win the biggest title in MMA. Yet, he was destroyed. In fact, Chuck was beaten by a prime Rampage in this tournament - who Wand beat mere minutes later to capture the crown.
Again, we can talk about Wand's PRIDE accomplishments all day - his wins over all time greats Sakuraba 3x, prime Hendo, Rampage (the unified PRIDE and UFC champion)... Guys like Arona, Mezger, Yoshida (Olympic gold medalist). There's also the fact that he "beat" a prime Mirko under special rules - he clearly out struck and dominated Mirko in their fight, but the rules stated it would be a draw unless it was finished.
Many credit Chael for willing to step up and take late fights (usually losing in the process). Well, let's not forget Wand's epic battle with Mark Hunt - who many, including myself, feel he won. Wanderlei took this fight on a single day's notice, despite an 80 lb weight disadvantage and the fact Mark Hunt was a prime K1 champion. When the fight actually happened, Wanderlei more than stood his ground. While getting clipped from huge haymakers that'd put almost any man in the world unconscious, he kept firing back combinations, displaying an aggressive and technical attack. Again, many think to this day Wanderlei was robbed in this fight, including Bas Rutten.
Wand's PRIDE run is just the stuff of legend. That kind of long running glory and dominance is something guys wish they could experience for even a year. During that entire time - what was Chael doing exactly? Getting finished in the UFC and scraping by in the B leagues, putting together mediocre numbers with unimpressive victories. Truthfully, until his controversial, honor-less no tap situation when he lost to Filho, nobody knew the guys name. He made his entire career off of his mouth, and that's great - more power to him. But I'm tired of people discrediting the career of one of the best ever, and putting a nobody on a pedestal because he talks just like those WWE wrestlers his fans are so fond of.
PRIDE was the top org from about 99 to 2006 and there is no disputing it. BUT obviously you guys wanna talk about "the now".. So let's take a detailed look at things. Let's examine both guys record in the UFC in the last 4 years and how their fights played out.
Since this time of year in 2010, Wand is 3-2 and has been finished once, a KO by Leben. His other loss was a decision to Franklin, in a fight where he dropped and hurt Rich bad in round 1, but gassed after going berserk trying to finish it while Rich was near out. Credit to Rich for hanging on, Wand just couldn't muster any energy after that and was outpointed and outjabbed. You gotta wonder if PRIDE rules were allowed, whether Wand would've finished Rich after dropping him. I'd say Wand's style suffers a lot due to the rules, whereas Chael's style plays well into the rule's hands.
Aside from those two losses (one where he was indeed clean KO'd, going for the kill against Leben), he has 3 wins over top opponents. All extremely thrilling bouts, with 2 big wins by come back KO.
The Bisping win was huge, as he has been top 10 forever. Wand dropped him twice and almost had a choke at the end of round 2. One of Wand's best modern day wins, he looked great and technical.
When he fought Cung, he had a sole loss at the time to a freak KO by Scott Smith. Many expected Cung to KO Wandy easily, and to their surprise his chin held up and despite getting dropped, he was able to destroy Cung in the 2nd round with one of the most violent finishes in MMA history. Many say Wand has no chin anymore, and yet since 2010 he has only been KO'd once - but against Cung and Stann, he survived several big knockdowns to come back and knock the other guy out.
The Stann fight was obviously the stuff of legend. Yet another example of why Wandy is a beloved warrior who always goes out on his shield and should be respected. Insane exchanges (I've never seen Chael put himselt at risk as many times in his career as Wand did in this fight), and like I said, Wand proved his chin to be solid still when he came back and KO'd Stann in one of the all time greatest fights EVER.
So, Wand is 3-2, with one bad loss, and three huge wins. Now let's take a look at Chael's career since the same time, modern day, 2010. When he first started to rise in the rankings as a top fighter. His wins during that span:
Nate M - a good fight where he took a lot of damage early on but came back and hurt Nate on the ground, maintaining superior positions and getting a good decision win. Many thought Nate would cruise through Chael, but he proved them wrong
Stann - this was a big deal because Chael hadn't fought in forever and he went out and proved he was trying to FINISH people, pulling off a great sub in a top contender fight. Chael's best win IMO.
Bisping - pretty good fight, extremely close with a controversial decision. I do give the nod to Chael, I guess, under the MMA scoring system (which isn't all that great, as everyone knows). This wasn't the most exciting fight in the world but Chael did enough to get the points and win.
Shogun - this also could be considered Chael's best win, as subbing Shogun is huge. However, when he subbed Stann, Stann was on a role and win streak while being considered a contender. Shogun has long been broken down and in the twilight of his career. However, Chael subbing him is still a great accomplishment.
Now let's look at his losses. This is what really hurts Chael's rep in the modern day. Chael is 1-3 in his last 4 fights, and since 2010 has suffered 4 decisive losses, all by finish. In two of those fights (Rashad/Jones) he was utterly dominated and destroyed in every way - whereas Wanderlei's lone loss by finish was a flash, one punch KO in a gun fight. Here's a look at Chael's losses since 2010, the modern day
Anderson 1 - Chael's best performance in a loss obviously. The fact he dropped Anderson was insane, but Anderson was also coming off the Maia fight where he looked terrible too. However, despite Chael dominating Anderson through most of the fight and landing over 300 punches, he never came close to finishing it and was submitted by a slick choke in round 5. A moral victory but still a decisive loss.
Anderson - round 1 Chael looked ok but eventually in round 2 was wrecked. On the feet he made mistakes like that silly backfist, and paid for it dearly. The barrage that started with Anderson's knee on the ground to the eventual finish was just brutal.
Jones - utter domination. Chael was destroyed in this fight in every way, even at his strongest ability (wresting)
Rashad - just like the Jones fight, Chael was thrashed in one of the most embarrassing losses in UFC history, legs flailing and all.
So, there we have it folks. Historically, Wanderlei is clearly the superior fighter, with more accomplishments, championships, accolades and meaningful victories - some over all time greats. We all agree on that. However, you guys said Chael in the now has been doing better than Wanderlei.. I don't really think so.
In this decade, since 2010, Chael is 4-4, with a few good wins but losses where he was completely outclassed, outskilled, outworked and beaten to a pulp. Wanderlei is 3-2, with his three wins all being huge, enthralling, and despite Wanderlei being a big underdog in each fight. He lost cleanly and fairly to Leben with a HUGE punch, and was outjabbed and outpointed by Rich after emptying the tank completely in an effort to end it.
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Secondly, and the reason I decided to make this post, is because ofthe blatant disrespect, trolling and disregard for a legend with a resume and style like Wanderlei Silva. Noticeably, albeit not surprisingly, almost all of these terrible posts come from the overwhelming number of new members. Yes, every group of n00bs is bad, but this is a different thing. Obviously, Chael has a schtick, much like a standup comedian.
Unfortunately, many new fans of the sport (usually low IQ, trashy, Johnny-come-lately types), take the guy's word as gospel. NONE of these people actually witnessed the history of this great sport, or saw either of these guys careers play out before their eyes. They didn't actually see how their wins and losses went down - they just hear Chael talk bad about someone, look at their fight finder or Wikipedia, and make an assumption. After making those assumptions, they go on their little forums and spout off nonsense that is essentially regurgitated garbage from a low end stand up comedy routine aimed pro wrestling fans.
So, on to the point. We can sit here and talk about the first 10 years of their careers all day - Everyone knows, and there is truly no argument, that Wanderlei has accomplished way more than Chael over the course of their careers.
Not only was Wand the 205 champ for 5+ years, he also won the prestigious fighting tournament ever at the time - the 2003 PRIDE MWGP. Featuring guys like Chuck Liddell, Rampage, Wand, Arona, Overeem, Nog, Saku, Yoshida, Busta.. etc, Wand winning this is one of the greatest accomplishments in MMA history. Think about this -guys like Chuck (the UFC's golden boy) even came to PRIDE at this time, hoping to win the biggest title in MMA. Yet, he was destroyed. In fact, Chuck was beaten by a prime Rampage in this tournament - who Wand beat mere minutes later to capture the crown.
Again, we can talk about Wand's PRIDE accomplishments all day - his wins over all time greats Sakuraba 3x, prime Hendo, Rampage (the unified PRIDE and UFC champion)... Guys like Arona, Mezger, Yoshida (Olympic gold medalist). There's also the fact that he "beat" a prime Mirko under special rules - he clearly out struck and dominated Mirko in their fight, but the rules stated it would be a draw unless it was finished.
Many credit Chael for willing to step up and take late fights (usually losing in the process). Well, let's not forget Wand's epic battle with Mark Hunt - who many, including myself, feel he won. Wanderlei took this fight on a single day's notice, despite an 80 lb weight disadvantage and the fact Mark Hunt was a prime K1 champion. When the fight actually happened, Wanderlei more than stood his ground. While getting clipped from huge haymakers that'd put almost any man in the world unconscious, he kept firing back combinations, displaying an aggressive and technical attack. Again, many think to this day Wanderlei was robbed in this fight, including Bas Rutten.
Wand's PRIDE run is just the stuff of legend. That kind of long running glory and dominance is something guys wish they could experience for even a year. During that entire time - what was Chael doing exactly? Getting finished in the UFC and scraping by in the B leagues, putting together mediocre numbers with unimpressive victories. Truthfully, until his controversial, honor-less no tap situation when he lost to Filho, nobody knew the guys name. He made his entire career off of his mouth, and that's great - more power to him. But I'm tired of people discrediting the career of one of the best ever, and putting a nobody on a pedestal because he talks just like those WWE wrestlers his fans are so fond of.
PRIDE was the top org from about 99 to 2006 and there is no disputing it. BUT obviously you guys wanna talk about "the now".. So let's take a detailed look at things. Let's examine both guys record in the UFC in the last 4 years and how their fights played out.
Since this time of year in 2010, Wand is 3-2 and has been finished once, a KO by Leben. His other loss was a decision to Franklin, in a fight where he dropped and hurt Rich bad in round 1, but gassed after going berserk trying to finish it while Rich was near out. Credit to Rich for hanging on, Wand just couldn't muster any energy after that and was outpointed and outjabbed. You gotta wonder if PRIDE rules were allowed, whether Wand would've finished Rich after dropping him. I'd say Wand's style suffers a lot due to the rules, whereas Chael's style plays well into the rule's hands.
Aside from those two losses (one where he was indeed clean KO'd, going for the kill against Leben), he has 3 wins over top opponents. All extremely thrilling bouts, with 2 big wins by come back KO.
The Bisping win was huge, as he has been top 10 forever. Wand dropped him twice and almost had a choke at the end of round 2. One of Wand's best modern day wins, he looked great and technical.
When he fought Cung, he had a sole loss at the time to a freak KO by Scott Smith. Many expected Cung to KO Wandy easily, and to their surprise his chin held up and despite getting dropped, he was able to destroy Cung in the 2nd round with one of the most violent finishes in MMA history. Many say Wand has no chin anymore, and yet since 2010 he has only been KO'd once - but against Cung and Stann, he survived several big knockdowns to come back and knock the other guy out.
The Stann fight was obviously the stuff of legend. Yet another example of why Wandy is a beloved warrior who always goes out on his shield and should be respected. Insane exchanges (I've never seen Chael put himselt at risk as many times in his career as Wand did in this fight), and like I said, Wand proved his chin to be solid still when he came back and KO'd Stann in one of the all time greatest fights EVER.
So, Wand is 3-2, with one bad loss, and three huge wins. Now let's take a look at Chael's career since the same time, modern day, 2010. When he first started to rise in the rankings as a top fighter. His wins during that span:
Nate M - a good fight where he took a lot of damage early on but came back and hurt Nate on the ground, maintaining superior positions and getting a good decision win. Many thought Nate would cruise through Chael, but he proved them wrong
Stann - this was a big deal because Chael hadn't fought in forever and he went out and proved he was trying to FINISH people, pulling off a great sub in a top contender fight. Chael's best win IMO.
Bisping - pretty good fight, extremely close with a controversial decision. I do give the nod to Chael, I guess, under the MMA scoring system (which isn't all that great, as everyone knows). This wasn't the most exciting fight in the world but Chael did enough to get the points and win.
Shogun - this also could be considered Chael's best win, as subbing Shogun is huge. However, when he subbed Stann, Stann was on a role and win streak while being considered a contender. Shogun has long been broken down and in the twilight of his career. However, Chael subbing him is still a great accomplishment.
Now let's look at his losses. This is what really hurts Chael's rep in the modern day. Chael is 1-3 in his last 4 fights, and since 2010 has suffered 4 decisive losses, all by finish. In two of those fights (Rashad/Jones) he was utterly dominated and destroyed in every way - whereas Wanderlei's lone loss by finish was a flash, one punch KO in a gun fight. Here's a look at Chael's losses since 2010, the modern day
Anderson 1 - Chael's best performance in a loss obviously. The fact he dropped Anderson was insane, but Anderson was also coming off the Maia fight where he looked terrible too. However, despite Chael dominating Anderson through most of the fight and landing over 300 punches, he never came close to finishing it and was submitted by a slick choke in round 5. A moral victory but still a decisive loss.
Anderson - round 1 Chael looked ok but eventually in round 2 was wrecked. On the feet he made mistakes like that silly backfist, and paid for it dearly. The barrage that started with Anderson's knee on the ground to the eventual finish was just brutal.
Jones - utter domination. Chael was destroyed in this fight in every way, even at his strongest ability (wresting)
Rashad - just like the Jones fight, Chael was thrashed in one of the most embarrassing losses in UFC history, legs flailing and all.
So, there we have it folks. Historically, Wanderlei is clearly the superior fighter, with more accomplishments, championships, accolades and meaningful victories - some over all time greats. We all agree on that. However, you guys said Chael in the now has been doing better than Wanderlei.. I don't really think so.
In this decade, since 2010, Chael is 4-4, with a few good wins but losses where he was completely outclassed, outskilled, outworked and beaten to a pulp. Wanderlei is 3-2, with his three wins all being huge, enthralling, and despite Wanderlei being a big underdog in each fight. He lost cleanly and fairly to Leben with a HUGE punch, and was outjabbed and outpointed by Rich after emptying the tank completely in an effort to end it.
